Foreign Minister Dymtro
Kuleba, welcome to the program.
My pleasure.
We’re told that there is a consensus
that Vladimir Putin
is not ready to engage in
any serious roundtable negotiations.
Does that match with what you know?
Well, yes,
When I look at the update
from the front line,
I see that whatever Russia says, it’s
not looking for negotiations
It’s not looking for just peace.
They are on the offensive.
They are
sending missiles and drones
and our critical energy infrastructure
and our cities
is not behave like this
when you are seeking negotiations
or when you’re trying
to get the upper hand
in order to have negotiation.
Absurd.
You know, this is the he he wants war.
He wants to destroy Ukraine.
And I believe he’s obsessed
with this idea.
In all your deliberations,
your meetings, here, face to face
with many of the world
leaders, including your allies
who are supporting your defense.
Do you feel that you are now out there
on the road
to getting what you need
to maintain a robust
defense and even maybe an offense?
When the war began a year ago.
We realized that we need
certain types of weapons
to become capable
of defending our territory,
but also then liberating our territory.
And there are seven types of weapons
on this list.
I call it the big seven.
And in one year, we unlocked
six out of seven
was only fighter planes remaining
on the wish list.
A conversation on
every type of weapon started with a no.
Every single weapon started with or not.
In the end, we got it.
So if you look back at history,
of course, we got
almost everything that we asked for.
And it’s required a huge evolution
in many capitals,
including in D.C., in Washington.
So if the word of 20, 22 for us
was weapons, the words for 2023 are
speed, speed of delivery
and sustainability.
Everything that has been pledged
has to arrive on time to be relevant.
It’s important,
you know, it has to be relevant,
relevant for the purposes of our victory.
Are you convinced by all the good words
you hear that
your allies will stay with you
to the bitter end
or for however long it takes
and that there’s no peace
without Ukraine being at the table.
There’s no Ukraine in negotiations
without Ukraine.
The mantra, are you sure about that?
Or do you feel like
you’re being encouraged
maybe to look for areas of
a diplomatic possibility
I don’t believe that someone
of our close
some of our closest friends
will negotiate behind our backs.
So I have trust in that
Even if someone decides to do so,
I can tell in advance
I take the opportunity of people
watching you,
whatever you negotiate between our backs,
will be rejected by us,
even if you are the closest friend.
I think it’s a fair deal
I think that our closest friends
will stay by us until we win.
The question is, of course,
how much time will it take?
We live in democracies.
Governments change. Leaders change.
So this is why it is so important
to maintain what is bipartisan support
in the United States or multiple parties
and so forth here in Germany,
so that whoever comes to power,
the support will be there
And frankly, yes, I have to be cautious.
I have to show some
rationality and
say that, of course,
you can not trust everyone in this world.
But I think
I don’t think it’s about trust.
I think it’s about a group of countries
who understand
that victory of Ukraine is not only
in the best interests of Ukraine,
but in their own interests. Yes.
And that is what your president said
when he came here last year
to say, our fight is your fight as well.
And you need to help us.
And he said it again.
He portrayed
this struggle
as David versus Goliath
and that David had to win.
Question is, what is winning?
We see what your
your side is
put that we see the ten point plan.
Fundamental in that is that Russia
removes itself
from all the territories
occupied since 2014
when I asked NATO’s secretary general
or any other government
including the United States
they won’t define
what winning looks like again.
It’s up to you.
But one year later,
what does winning look like?
Full restoration of Ukraine’s
territorial integrity.
This is the
the first victory
that we have to gain on the ground.
Then other victories will follow.
On making Russia compensate,
on bringing perpetrators to account.
But more broadly speaking,
we have to answer
the most important question.
What needs to be done to ensure
lasting peace
in the region
and in the whole Euro-Atlantic area?
And this question has two answers.
First, half of the answer is
that Ukraine
has to become a member of EU, NATO.
And the second is Russia must change.
And this is the most intriguing debate
that has to unfold
what to do with Russia?
Well, what to do with Russia?
Definitely something
something needs to be done.
Russia cannot stay as it is now
because it’s full of aggression.
It’s full of Roman schism.
And I’m not necessarily saying that it’s
something that we outsiders
have to do with Russia.
I think the people of Russia themselves
have to start thinking
what needs to be changed
for their normal life to be brought back
to their to their daily routine.
It’s a complicated issue.
There is no
there are no easy answers
at this at this point.
But what I’m trying to say
is that
in the end, lasting
and enduring peace is possible
when Russia will not be posing a threat.
You have said that
it’s a good deal
what you have with your allies,
but they supply you with the weapons
so that you do the fighting
and they don’t need to fight.
Do you think that message has got through
You think they
think Ukraine is
their existential threat as well?
Ukraine is Russia is their existence?
No. I mean, Ukraine is definitely not.
There is I mean, a Ukrainian defeat
It depends on whom you are talking to.
But one way or another, yes,
they understand it
because
whatever the price of supporting
Ukraine is,
the price of fighting on your own
yourself is will be much higher.
One thing is to send a tank to Ukraine,
and it may be difficult decision to make,
but one thing is to send a tank.
Another is to put the young boy
into into the tank
and send him to die for another country.
And I would like to reiterate
once more that we never, never,
ever asked for foreign boots
on the ground in Ukraine.
And this is why I call it a fair deal.
Unlike
so many countries
who are calling the United States
to step in
to come and save them,
we said we know how to save ourselves
Give us the devil’s
sling, so
to say, to defeat, to defeat Goliath.
How long will it take you to win
It’s the most painful question.
I,
I think we should not be asking ourselves
this question.
I think every day,
instead of asking ourselves
how long will it take to win?
We shouldn’t
be asking ourselves,
what else can I do to make Ukraine win?
It completely changes the optics
because if you ask
the first question, in the end,
you’ll get where you get tired.
Right?
Okay.
Silence still goes on.
But if you’re committed to success,
it actually motivates you.
It moves you,
drive, drives, drives you on.
It moves you forward.
And we did.
We did succeed.
In changing
very important optics sometime last year.
Because if you if you see what leaders
were saying
in the beginning of the war,
they were mostly emphasizing
that Russia must not prevail in Ukraine.
And we were saying, no, this is wrong
optics
to get all your policies
and decisions right.
You have to say Ukraine must win.
And now you are hearing more
and more of that.
These little things,
they really have an impact on
what kind of decisions are being made
and what kind of policies
are being pursued.
So the same here.
Foreign Minister, thank you very much.
Thank you.
